good evening, everybody. thank you for being with us. lawmakers and the white house digging in for what appears to be a long battle. the first federal government shutdown in nearly two decades showing no signs of ending. republicans are pushing a piecemeal approach to reopen segments of the government, but democrats are demanding legislation with nothing attached, and this week, they dug in their heels. >> i will not negotiate over congress' responsibility to pay bills it's already racked up. >> the republicans' piecemeal approach is a waste of time. it's a gimmick. it's a ploy. it's politics as usual. >> he will not offer concessions

to republicans in exchange for not tanking the economy. >> if neither side budges, the government shutdown could collide with the debt ceiling deadline in some two weeks, potentially adding far more serious ramifications for the economy and perhaps our markets as well. we'll have full coverage of the shutdown for you and the week's other top stories, in particular the rocky start of obama care's online health insurance exchanges, glitches and bottlenecks reported across the country as the obama administration curiously staying quiet on exactly how many people were able to enroll in obama care. also congresswoman, registered nurse dianne black says individuals and families should be able to benefit from the same one-year delay of the obama care program as the president gave big business, and with a unique and special perspective into a government shutdown, we're joined by former

house majority leader, tom delay. he helped guide the republican party in the 1995-96 showdown with president clinton. he joins us with some counsel to republican leadership in both the house and the senate. joining us now is congresswoman dianne black. she serves in both the budget committee, the house ways and means committee. she's also been a registered nurse for more than 40 years. congresswoman, it's great to have you back with us. you've had a busy day. it continues, i know you're short on time. give us a sense with the threat from the house, i just would love to get your interpretation of this, the threat of a veto from the white house, does that imply that there may be a fear that the senate might go along with you? >> we don't know that, lou. until it goes over to the senate, i'm not going to even take a guess at what the senate would do. this is really a difficult time because we have both the senate and also the president saying they're not willing to even talk

to the members of congress and the house. this is just ridiculous. we've got the president who is willing to negotiate with iran and russia and syria, but not with the members of congress. >> this is startling, because i think this is one of those unintended consequences of the behavior of both senator reid and president obama. the longer this goes, the clearer it is to the american people that the house of representatives has moved to fund the government to delay the one-year -- by one year, the individual mandates, just as the president did for big business and small, and to at the same time, this president has insisted, you guys have offered to make some changes. you've pushed aside the tax on the medical devices. they wouldn't hear of that, which is in itself madness. what are you going to do?

how do you move forward from here? >> it is very frustrating. as you have already said, the american people did not want to see the government close down but neither do they want obama care to go forward. so we did what the american people asked us to do and that is to fund the government through the continuing c.r., then also fight for fairness. and it's not fair that the president continues to give those with special interests a delay or a special exemption as he did in the employer mandate, he has done with unions, and we just say you ought to treat the american people, the individuals who don't have that influence in the president's office, the same way. it's also not fair that members of congress would be exempted from this. >> we're talking about, if i may, congresswoman, just to point out because i failed to do so, we're talking about the subsidies that the president has provided so generously to congress, to your staffs and to the white house, to the administration. i mean, this is spectacular favoritism of the elite and the

powerful in washington, d.c., and they won't even think about stepping back for those subsidies. we have heard stories, by the way, from both democrats and republicans who want to hang on to those subsidies. what do you say to them, congresswoman? >> i say this is a fairness issue. i hear this from people all the time that congress doesn't live under the rules that they make and we believe that they should. i believe they should. i ran on that and i still believe that. and this again is a fairness issue, where we cannot even get the senate to sit down and talk to us. this is the way our government was set up is that you would have negotiations between the house and the senate and the president. it is the way our constitutional form of government was set up and what it was intended to do and it's very frustrating that we cannot even get them to come to the dance and have an opportunity to be able to talk to them about fairness issues. this is not -- this whole law is not ready for prime time. we know that. we know what's been happening all day long. as a matter of fact, i have a screen shot of what people may have seen across this country --

>> we have been showing those error messages. >> yes, the error messages and it's down for the moment. we're seeing this and i talked about this before, even with you on the verification, on the data services hub that is not ready. this is not ready for prime time. we continue to say this and yet we can't even get an audience with the president who ran on the fact that he was going to bring america together. there would be no red states, there would be no blue states, there would be purple. we don't see all of these broken promises is what we're seeing today. this is unfair and the president will not even have dialogue with us to talk to us about what's going on with this unworkable health care law. >> does your caucus remain united tonight? we've heard from several republican congressmen who were talking about let's do a clean c.r. and move on with it. do you have the sense that you're making some considerable progress in bringing your message to the american people

and gaining their support? >> we always have people that think differently within the caucus, they represent different parts of the country and that's really what we're elected to do is to represent the members of our districts, so you will sometimes hear something different from time to time, but for the most part, we are united in this, we believe that the president and also especially harry reid needs to come to the table. we need to have conversations so that we can do what we have said all along and that is to fund the government and yet make sure that we protect the american people from this very onerous law that's killing jobs, causing premiums to rise and giving limited choices for health care. for my constituents in my district, we see 190% increase in premiums for our 27-year-old males in our state. i could go on and on about the problems with this bill. >> and problems that are now increasingly and perhaps even

better being articulated by the republican party. we're seeing every sign that the american people are beginning to see what the issues truly are and, you know, the price is a government shutdown but it is a price if it can avoid a disaster or a train wreck, as both some democrats and some republicans have said it will be worth it. congresswoman, we thank you -- >> if i may just end with this, lou. >> real quickly. >> as the american people continue to have this affect their lives, we will continue to see that there will be an unpopularity of this law. >> congresswoman dianne black, good to talk with you. thanks for being here. president obama reopening the world war ii memorial to veterans as free speech has returned to the nation's capital, at least for some, not for everyone will that memorial be open. my next guest helped push aside the barricades after his request to allow a group of veterans to visit the memorial was denied by

the administration. joining us now is congressman steven palazzo, member of the house armed services and homeland security committees. good to have you with us, congressman. >> lou, good to be on. thank you. >> i want to say first of all, good for you in representing your constituents, good for you in standing up to what is just pure politics which would have been at the expense of those veterans. i mean, what are your thoughts tonight and are you satisfied with this resolution? >> well, absolutely. first of all, i'm satisfied that the administration reversed their decision to keep the world war ii memorial, which by the way was erected to honor the greatest generation for their sacrifice, their bravery, their commitment and their courage, and for them to -- for him to actually, you know, speak out and reverse it i think is a huge victory for our veterans, but these monuments should be open for all american people,

especially the ones that are open air, where 24/7, people are allowed to go there because this was unnecessary from the beginning. they actually had to add additional measures to erect barricades to practically keep the veterans out. >> congressman, did anybody explain to you why they bothered to put up barricades to an open memorial? i mean, did anybody even try to explain that or rationalize it? >> we reached out to the park service in advance of the trip because we were concerned that they may be closing, you know, the parks, the national park and certain memorials, and the department of interior, all they said was the government's going to be shut down, the barricades are going to be put up, it's going to be closed and that's when we wrote a letter to the president and we still have not gotten clear and written response from him. >> maybe a phone call, a text, something. i'm just kidding, congressman. just kidding.

>> okay. good. >> you know, there are also charges, though, by some on the left, i'm talking about the far left, way over there by robert zimmerman left, that are saying this was an inspired stunt by you guys, it wasn't just an impromptu moment. how do you react to that? >> well, this is my fifth honor flight. this is actually the second to last for the mississippi honor flight program, not because we don't want to continue bringing veterans up here. it's because we're losing our veterans at an alarming rate, especially our world war ii survivors. i always meet our veterans at the memorial, was does senator wicker and other members of the mississippi delegation, just like many other members of congress. >> we're out of time, sir. i really need you to kind of focus on the question, if you don't mind. >> absolutely. this was a political stunt by the administration. it was petty politics at its worst. the american people spoke up in outrage and he reversed his decision.

>> congressman, great to have you with us. come back soon. again, good for you. >> thank you. i feel like i did what every other american would have done in their shoes. >> let's hope so. thank you. no more red lines and israel makes it clear, it will go it alone against iran. retired four-star general jack keene on benjamin netanyahu's fighting words, next. customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy.

happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics. nice car. sure is. make a deal with me, kid, and you can have the car and everything that goes along with it. [ thunder crashes, tires squeal ] ♪ ♪ so, what do you say? thanks... but i think i got this. ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new cla. starting at $29,900. you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast, long lasting relief, use doctor recommended gaviscon®. only gaviscon® forms a protective barrier that helps block stomach acid from splashing up- relieving the pain quickly. try fast, long lasting gaviscon®. relieving thhelp the gulfy. when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company.

i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art moniring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

deadly clashes on the outskirts of damascus today. at least 12 syrian government troops killed by al qaeda terrorists. it all coincides with this week's arrival of international chemical weapons inspectors who have embarked on their mission to clean up president assad's estimated 1,000 ton arsenal of

chemical weapons. joining us now is general jack keene, retired four-star army general, former army vice chief of staff, fox news military analyst. general, this fighting, this close to damascus and an obvious defeat for government forces, assad's forces, what does this suggest to you? >> there's been some fierce fighting that's been going on for months. actually, the chemical attack that assad did was in the suburbs of damascus and it was the result of the fact that he could not push those people out of there using airplanes, rockets, artillery that he used chemicals. so there's still fierce fighting going on. assad has been all in since our political debate over this in our country and when he was moving things around. after that debate ended and he knew that we were not going to attack, he has been truly forcing his hand to get back out there and deal with the rebel forces so the level of conflict has gone up. >> the level of conflict. what about the results for assad and his regime?

is he at this point in a stalemate or is he winning against all of these rebel forces? >> i think the psychological and the physical momentum has clearly moved to his favor. it's sad in a sense, because what the chemical process has done, chemical weapons in terms of disarmament, has legitimized him in power and he's consolidated that power and it's likely he will stay in power because the losers in all of what has taken place with our syrian policy are the opposition forces. i think they are convinced now that they will not receive anything consequential from the united states or the west and it's actually breaking up the opposition forces much more so than what they were in the past. the moderates were aligned with u.s. interests and they had been weakened as a result of our association and disarmament policy with assad, and the radicals have been strengthened

as a result of it because what they're saying is look, you're not going to get any help, come work with us. >> the united nations, to the surprise of many, pushed through a resolution on syria. it does not, of course, have teeth because it also does not provide for military enforcement of that resolution. has the administration made a mistake here or what is your judgment about that resolution, its effectiveness and what a post, and let's make an assumption here that the united nations chemical weapons inspectors are successful, these are heroic assumptions, and that the assad regime is sincere in turning those weapons over to the united nations. >> well, it's absolutely true that it has no teeth, as you suggested, because there is no true enforcement in terms of military option. but i think realistically, lou, i don't think the administration has the stomach for the military option anyway and i think that's probably why they didn't fight as hard as they probably should have fought to get that option

in there. that's the harsh reality of it. i don't see us intervening and the rebels know this as well. that's what's causing some of the problems within their cohesion and why they're breaking apart, because they don't believe they're going to get supported. >> we're looking at the further ascension in the middle east of vladimir putin and russia. >> absolutely. putin has played his hand about as well as it can be played. putin does not have a military of any consequence. he has huge economic challenges. he has demographic problems that are absolutely atrocious in terms of what's happening to his population. but he wanted to climb back on the world stage in terms of prestige. he wanted to hold on to this anchor with syria and he's doing that. i think it's overstated how much influence he's going to have in the middle east. i do believe what he's done with syria certainly has helped him in terms of his own n interest. >> general jack keene, thank you. good seeing you. up next, president obama

blasting republicans while he claimed the last government shutdown hurt our economy. we will take up the chalk talk and you know what happens when we do that. truth lives. stay with us. ♪ [ villain ] well mr. baldwin... it appears our journey has come to a delightful end. then i better use the capital one purchase eraser to redeem my venture miles for this trip. puhase eraser? it's the easy way to erase any recent travel expense. i just pick a charge, like my flight with a few taps, it's taken care of. impressive baldwin. does it work for hotels? absolutely thank goodness. mrs. villain and i are planning our... you scare me. and i like it. let's go what's in your wallet?

the federal government was shut down 17 times since a new budgeting process was put in place back in 1976. the last shutdowns came in late 1995, early 1996. and contrary to what president obama again said today, it didn't hurt the economy. we want to show you so you know what happened. in fact, after those shutdowns, the s & p 500 actually moved up 4%. that's a pretty good rally during the nearly two months covering the shutdown. it rose another 10.5%, 10.5% -- well, 10.5% the following month. unemployment, let's talk about unemployment.

it stayed even at 5.6% during the shutdown. what happened after that? it fell to 5.5% by february of 1996. that's pretty good when you think we're at 7.3% and have had the most stubborn job market after a recovery in ages. the economy at that point was growing, think about this, the economy was growing at a 2.9% rate. 2.9% in the fourth quarter of 1995. it dipped slightly to 2.6% in the first quarter of '96. but then, get ready for this, in the second quarter of '96 after the shutdown, rose to 7.2%.

do you want to hear any more bull about what a dangerous, disastrous thing a shutdown of our government is? maybe we need to shut it down every couple of years under this administration. think where the economy would be if indeed we were to get this result. that's right. every major economic indicator in '95 and '96 improved after the clinton era government shutdown, and immediately following all of that came the first balanced budget in three decades. and those budgets, they were balanced for four years. four years. president obama is really racheting up the rhetoric of fear that he enjoys so much but about the impact of shutting the government down, it turns out to be nothing more than hysterical

fearmongering, utterly and completely unsupported by either the facts or history. one prominent republican, former house majority leader tom delay, says shut the government down. he says republicans won't be blamed by voters for doing so. he says it all won't much affect the economy, either. afct afct the economy you really love, what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪ when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪ paying ourselves maestro of project management. baron of the build-out.

you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrft. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro.

♪ turning back to the budget battle, my next guest says republicans need to be constant in their position, stand strong and he was a member of republican leadership during the 1995 and 1996 government shutdown. joining me now, former house majority leader tom delay. tom, good to have you with us. >> thank you, lou. >> i have a feeling that john boehner's getting a lot of counsel about how to walk very gingerly through this and get

out without having to stand strong or too tall for fear of the backlash if there were to be a government shutdown. >> well, some, and i don't want to compare myself to john boehner. they have a really hard job to do right now, and i know what they're going through. but this is very, very difficult, particularly when you're herding these cats in the house of representatives. it's a very tough job. but it really bothers me that some members, particularly republican members, think that a shutdown is just the end of the world, and it's not. we won the shutdown in 1995. we were in the speaker's office 24 hours a day for almost -- i think it was 28 days. unfortunately, bob dole on a sunday afternoon went down and opened up the government, and clinton said in his book that if we had waited one more day, he

would have caved in. but the point is that -- >> i should point out, if i may, tom, bob dole, the senate leader for the republicans, was the guy who frankly was sort of a tag-along in those negotiations. he's the one who broke not new newt gingrich, newt gingrich as you point out in your book, fell in line very quickly with senator dole, unfortunately for the republicans. >> well, that's true. but the point is that we were fighting over cutting spending. we had eliminated over 100 programs, agencies and offices, and we still did that. all we did was fix a little bit to save face for clinton and we still got the spending cuts. not only that, but we sent a message to bill clinton that we were crazy enough, we will take you over the cliff, so for the next six years of his

administration, he didn't get to sign one major bill that he initiated, and he signed welfare reform, balancing the budget and all these other things. of course, now he takes credit for it. and in the next election, lou, we gained two seats in the senate and only lost two seats in the house and held on to the majority. i don't know where the losing comes from. >> well, it comes from a national liberal media that has its own construction of events and some folks who don't do a lot of reading of the fine print. i'm wondering, do you believe that this leadership in the house has the guts to stand up and say harry reid is the one who just declared an ultimatum, the president is the one who just declared an ultimatum and they're going to stand on principle. do you think they have that capacity? >> well, i really don't want to comment on the leadership, lou. that's not the point. the point right now is the republicans in the house, there

are some republicans that just don't want the government to shut down. they think it's just horrible. but the vast majority of the republicans in the house want to stand on principles, want to fight, and are more than willing to fight. and that's all they need to do. the second thing, i will just give a little advice, they won't take it, they need to quit this ping-pong stuff from the senate to the house back to the senate. they just need to get into a conference committee where the house and the senate can work out their differences, because then the whole focus is on funding obama care, and the pressure builds to such an extent that you might get some compromises if you want to, or you can hold your ground. but that's what they need to be doing. >> as you avoided the comment that might be taken as critical of the leadership in the house, i was thinking to myself with the normal frustration when a

guest does not answer your question, i was thinking how wise the republicans would be to follow the example of that moment and quit criticizing one another, quit running one another down, and someone take control of the republican party on capitol hill and by that i mean a group of wise men and women who could guide republican policy legislatively in the congress and the senate and end some of this nonsense because the result is disparaging and weakening of the republican position which frankly is about a bad law that is empirically disastrous. >> yeah, lou, you are so right. i am so upset with those that have these fights out in the public. they're just playing into the hands of the left and the leftist media.

if you want to fight, fight behind closed doors and it's like a family. fight it out and work it out, but don't fight it out there in the public arena. that doesn't help anybody and it certainly doesn't help the republicans. but i got to tell you right now, i think ted cruz is pretty much running the republican party in the house and the senate. whatever he says, the american people gather behind him and are with him. so i hope ted cruz can lay out a strategy that both the house and the senate can unite behind, because i really believe they can win this in the end. see, i just think obama is so weak, he's a weak president, he's weak in the polls, he doesn't know what he's doing, and if the republicans put a united front up in front of him and hold the ground, the

pressure gets so great as he's done so many times, he will fold like a napkin. >> as i listen to you go through the polls, the position, his record of leadership, do you find any parallels with a president back in 1995 at this point? >> most definitely. remember, we had hillary care and bill clinton for two years had a democrat congress and he got to do whatever he wanted to. well, the polls went into the toilet and his popularity and his approval ratings were just really, really low. that allowed that wave of republicans to come in in '94 and, you know, we let him know in no uncertain terms we're going to stand on principle and we had a pretty good six years as republicans and so did the nation, by the way. >> congressman, thank you very much. congressman tom delay with some counsel for just about all of

us. we appreciate it. thanks for being here. >> my pleasure, lou. thanks for having me. up next, the new book "shaping our nation." how cultural migration from centuries past still profoundly affects our national elections.

joining me now, the washington examiner's senior political analyst, fox news contributor, author of this brand new book, "shaping our nation." great to have you here. congratulations on the book. the idea that migration is powerful, we are a nation of immigrants but what you document here is powerful in that you bring the entire pathway of the course of our history to the present. >> in this book, i talk about surges of migration, both immigrant coming from across the oceans, the land borders, and

internal, the vast movement of people like the new england yankees in the early 19th century across the northern part of the country. the southern plantation people taking their slaves from the atlantic seaboard to the mississippi valley, and the collision between these two groups about the extension of slavery to the territories literally leads to civil war. so migration's immigrants have built a great nation. they have also sometimes caused problems and difficulties. >> as you point out, difficulties are part of life, period. the difficulties in america have been far less than difficulties i think it's fair to say in most other nations. multi culturalism which is to me onerrous because i think of us as a melting pot. >> we have been multicultural since the founding fathers welded those 13 colonies into one union. they had a formula.

limited government, tolerance, religious tolerance in particular, no religious test for office, no law regarding an establishment of religion, and rule of law and individual rights. that formula has generally worked pretty well. sometimes some of us and i think you may be one, think we have not done as good a job assimilating the spanish immigrants as we did with the ellis islanders, the people from eastern and southern europe that came between 1892 and 1914. >> when you say we assimilate, i think when you break down your own cultural norms, societal norms and values, you're making a mistake and when you don't impose laws on all equally, then you're really defeating what this country's founders intended. >> educating children so that they master the language and basic skills. one of the things i found in

this is that the surges of migration which have been so important, nobody predicted when they were going to start. almost nobody predicts when they're going to end. the northward surge of american blacks, one-third of american blacks from 1940 to '65, just one generation, then it stopped. >> and so do we. we're out of time. michael barone, great to have you with us. the book is available in bookstores and online now. it will be a bestseller and big. michael barone, good to see you. we will link to it on loudobbs.com as well. be sure to buy it. up next, republicans fighting republicans. wow. a fifth year president still on the campaign trail. a government shutdown approaches. leading mental health experts, well, we're in need. what are these people thinking? we'll find out. pope francis taking a different view on abortion, contraception, homosexuality, than we've seen from the

vatican. father jonathan morris joins us. stay with us. h us. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there are no branches? h us. 24/7. i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches

let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. a new way to bank. a better way to save. ally bank. your money needs an ally.

americans brace for changes to their doctors, insurance, health care coverage, the obama scare package starts going into effect next week with the insurance exchanges. joining me now to discuss the psychology of it all are doctors robi ludwig and dr. jeff gardiere. good to have you both here. let's start with your business. >> yeah. >> if i may. do you get affected by obama care? >> absolutely. >> we certainly do. >> yeah. >> positively or negatively? >> no, i think it's more of a negative. because the reimbursement rate,

i think first of all, most americans don't understand what obama care means and -- >> neither do the people who wrote the law. >> maybe that's why. maybe that's why. nobody seems to understand it. but i think it's really like medicaid for the masses. so basically, you think you're getting care but you're really not getting good care, because the physicians who want to have a business will say i'm not going to accept this. >> you don't like it? >> i won't probably accept it. >> will you? >> the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. you know where i lean on this. [ speaking simultaneously ] >> you know, it is about getting who don't have it. that's why a lot of people don't come in to therapy. >> you will honor it? >> i'm going to be very honest with you. i don't even like the insurance rates the way they are right now. this will make it even tougher now. a lot of people will not accept,

will not accept this. >> are you going to accept it? you're not going to accept it? >> i will accept it where i work, at an inner city clinic, but not in my private practice. >> i can't afford to do it in my private practice. >> two professionals like you have this to say. we're looking at a cost of $1.8 trillion, these are projections, they have doubled since the original. we're talking about $1.8 trillion. why is there even an idealogical discussion? these people should say let's put a hold on this thing. i just want to see if there's some rationality here. >> i think it's ego driven. >> to use a psychological term. >> that impresses me. >> because i can't understand what the benefits are. i do like one aspect. >> the benefits are insurance, just as you said, to the masses for people who are getting very good care now, they may not get that same quality of care anymore. >> that's right. they may not be able to use their doctors. there is overcrowding. >> we're told the doctors, there will be a doctor shortage of

immense proportions as a result of obama care. >> that's right. >> we know health care costs are rising, not going down, as the president promised. premiums are rising, extraordinarily so in many instances. this is a punitive law. it is not a law that is close to doing what they promise and certainly not numerically. >> there will still be 30 million people uninsured. >> there's this idea of forcing people to get insurance, too. i don't understand that. >> doesn't seem american to you? >> no, it doesn't. and also, there are many people saying you know what, i'll take the penalty. i don't have the money to pay for this on a monthly basis. >> pushing people out of employer-sponsored insurance. >> right now, the way health care is set up, it's a privilege. now with obama care, it will become certainly a right and i think it's a right that a lot of people do need. there are a lot of people who are not insured, a lot of people who are not getting the medical care that they need, and i think

psychologically, it is going -- a lot of people are going to feel much, much better about it. >> with 90,000 -- we will be 90,000 doctors short by the end of this decade. we will be 130,000 doctors short by 2025. how in the world is this going -- this is not going to provide care. >> we're not france, where medical school is paid for. this is america, where doctors basically are coming out with a huge amount of debt. they need some way to pay it back. who wants to be a doctor? many people don't anymore. >> we just have to have more doctors, d.o.s, osteopathic physicians will have to be more mass -- >> you think people can just recognize that this is a bad law to get to even that end, thus hold it in abeyance? >> i think after this segment, everybody will think that. >> i don't. >> always delighted to see you, doctors, as we seek to convert you. up next, the new pope offers a different and very interesting take on homosexuality and abortion. father jonathan morris next.

♪ [ engine revs, tires squeal ] [ male announcer ] since we began, mercedes-benz has pioneered many breakthroughs. ♪ breakthroughin design... breakthroughs in safety... in engineering... and technology. and now our latest creation breaks one more barrier. introducing the cla. starting at $29,900. ♪ customer erin swenson900. ordebut they didn't fit.line customer'not happy, i'm not happy. les go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer.

easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics. ♪ grew up in a small town and when the rain would fall down ♪ ♪ i would pray ♪ i'll spread my wings and i'll learn how to fly ♪ i'll do what it takes till i touch the sky ♪ ♪ i gta take a risk, take a chance, make a change, and break away ♪ ♪ i gta take a risk, take a chhelp the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology,

like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitong center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. [ mthat if you wear a partial,w you're almost twice as likely to lose your supporting teeth? try poligrip for partials. poligrip helps minimize stress which may damage supporting teeth by stabilizing your partial. care f your partial. help protect your natural teeth. she took an early spring break thanks to her double miles from the capital one venture card. now what was mrs. davis teaching? spelling. that's not a subject, right? i mean, spell check. that's a program. algebra. okay. persons a and b are flying to the bahamas.

how fast will they get there? don't you need distance, rate and... no, all it takes is double miles. [ all ] whoa. yeah. [ male announcer ] get away fast with unlimited double miles from the capital one venture card. you're the world's best teacher. this is so unexpected. what's in your wallet? ♪ what's going on in the vatican? pope francis last week warning the catholic church needs to find a new balance on issues like gay marriage and abortion or he says it may fall like a house of cards. joining us now, fox news religion contributor, father jonathan morris. great to have you with us. what is this pope doing? let's start with -- >> that's a good start. i love it. >> he says the pope -- the pope saying quote, if we can see this full screen of what he did say, the church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules.

the most important thing is the first proclamation, jesus christ has saved you and the ministers of the church must be ministers above all. that is so eloquent and so powerful. where is -- >> it is, and it lends itself to misinterpretation, obviously. because what he said was the church should not insist only these issues like gay marriage, like abortion, et cetera. but he knows that it lends itself to misinterpretation and he says i'm willing to take that risk. he's saying there's a real danger also in speaking the truth that the fullness of the gospel message as he sees it is not proclaimed, so he says i'm choosing to talk about mercy, and he then said that people have reprimanded him. imagine, people reprimanding the pope for not speaking out enough about abortion and gay marriage, contraception, et cetera. he says you know what, i'm doing this on purpose. >> i wouldn't think that he

would not be doing it with a significant purpose. are we seeing a real shift in the church, its doctrine, and a shift by this pope? >> not a shift on doctrine. he himself said i am a son of the church. he said the church teaches what it teaches, and as catholic teaching would say not even the pope can change dogma. that's something revealed to god through scripture through the person of jesus, et cetera, but we are seeing a radical shift and some conservatives are afraid of, i think, recognizing how radical this is. we're seeing a radical shift on tone. radical. >> and no more representative of that shift in tone, pope francis over the weekend telling a crowd in sardinia and if we can put this quote up, we don't want this globalized economic system which does us so much harm. men and women have to be at the center of an economic system as god wants, not money.

the world has become an idolator of this god called money. now, talk about something that can be interpreted incorrectly in a number of directions. >> absolutely. i think you're one of the only journalists who have brought this up because everybody has been focused on abortion and gay marriage. i'm glad that you brought this up. pope francis is saying the economy is for or should be for humanity. instead of that the economy is for making an individual wealthy. that humanity is more than just making money. and he's saying if the global system is set up in such a way that money is the idol, then we're very screwed up. >> you know, it's startling because we just don't have voices right now saying there is a balance to be achieved in life between materialism and wealth.

between our material lives and our spiritual lives. when i think about that, his voice and his words on this issue are remarkable because they are so distinct and apart from all of the noise that we're hearing in society. >> absolutely. you know one thing that, i'm glad you brought that up, one thing pope francis said when he gave this talk was jobs, jobs, jobs. >> amen, brother. >> he said if there's no jobs, then the dignity of the human person is lost. if there is no job, in other words, work is not just about making money. it's actually, a job can help a person realize who they are. that's the dignity of the human person. the fact that he is saying that money can be an idol does not mean that making money is bad. in fact, he's saying making money in terms of a job, that makes us more human. >> and this country and this economy is all about equal opportunity and creating

opportunity in respecting a man or woman no matter what their work is, respect them for the work they do. >> that's right. >> father, it is great to have you here. >> i'm glad you took on the issue. [ dynamic music plays ] [ dynamic music continues ] [ dynamic music continues ] [ dynamic music continues ]